sand. tells cnbc the white house is prepared to go over the fiscal cliff if p republicans don't give in on higher taxes on the wealthy. no change seen at the ecb. draghi expected to hold off on rates and bond purchases. central bank may cut its forecasts for 2013. european stocks in the green in early trade. cheering the new aerospace ownership structure. >> yesterday dow with triple digit gains, nasdaq negative move. rate now about 24 1/2 points above fair value for the dow. s&p 500 four points above fair value. and we're, what, two and a quarter points above fair value for the s&p 500. ftse 100 up third of a percent. xetra dax up a 52 week high at the moment. 87 points higher. and the cac 40 up 0.6%. it's worth pointing out nearly 26% is the gains this year for the german market. we did tease you with the bonds. spanish 5.1%, slightly lower today. didn't quite raise the maximum with that auction that we spoke about yesterday. so this is where we stand at the moment on the currency markets. euro-dollar steady at 1.3078, but not far off the session high. for a recap of asia, let's bring in lisa once again in singapore. >> thank you, ross. mixed day of trade for asian markets after yes

fiscal cliff which he says congress and the president must address. he says because we're at the zero balance, interest rates were zero, the effect of the fiscal cliff is getting much worse than if the fed were not at zero. >> because they could do something. >> the only positive thing which dudley did not talk about but it is something that's on the radar is that, as the fiscal cliff fears rise, interest rates fall on the 10-year. so the effect the fed would have from easing is already in -- already happening as a market reaction. >> steve, thank you. >>> when jeff kilburg is not fired up about the irish he is fired up about what mr. dudley said today. why? >> absolutely. he came out with very dovish comments. he lass a permanent vote and he is quite the confidant of ben bernanke. so he flat-out gave a wink-wink, there's something big coming in less than two weeks. >> he's been a dove for a long time though. no change but just to hear it articulated gives you some sense of -- >> it does. this could be a one-two punch. if the fomc comes out with additional measures, subsequent week later, all of a sudden they hav

. >> announcer: time to "toast today's close "with this. with the fiscal cliff and tax rates rising, in november public companies borrowed reported amounts in the bond market in part to help finance shareholder payouts. so, how much in bonds was sold last month? find out next. [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work. and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. it's just common sense. if we want to improve our schools... ... what should we invest in? maybe new buildings? what about updated equipment? they can help, but recent research shows... ... nothing transforms schools like investing in advanced teacher education. let's build a strong foundation. let's invest

. will the white house let our economy go over the fiscal cliff if a deal on higher tax rates for the wealthy is not reached? we're checking it out. back in a moment. [ male announcer ] research suggests cell health plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. it's easy to follow the progress you're making toward all your financial goals. a quick glance, and you can see if you're on track. when the conversation turns to knowing where you stand, turn to us. wells fargo advisors. >>> welcome back. this very public negotiation on the fiscal cliff still does not seem to be closing in on a deal. the white house out in campaign style events regularly, making multiple media appearances, kle including timothy geithner right here in 25 minutes. >> but would things be done faster if it was done privately? in his latest column, jeff goldfor a compares u.s. budget talks to merger proxy battles. jeff joins us to explain about that. plus, we have

fiscal cliff, that includes high tax rates for the wealthy. house republicans are meeting with small business owners today. lawmakers are divided on how much they should compromise with the white house. this is a day after the house speaker john boehner unveiled a budget proposal that included some revenue concession but he faced heavy criticism. mitch mcconnell wouldn't publicly endorse boehner's plan, while jim demint says it would destroy jobs. at the same time, the kkr co-chairman and ceo henry kravis says uncertainty is the main reason why investing isn't happening right now. he says many companies are rushing to close deals before the end of the year, concerns about whether the capital gains tax will rise. he says the fiscal cliff shouldn't be a big issue, and if businessmen got into the room they could solve the problem much faster than congress. >>> adding his tuppence, he says they'll have to get used to it and the fiscal cliff is one of the reasons. >> we have structural influences that speak to the deleveraging, speak to aging demographics of the boomers, that speak to glo

congress are negotiating issues around the fiscal cliff. we think it is really important that they get something done because, obviously, if tax rates go up on middle-class americans come next month, it will be bad for those middle-class americans, it is will be bad for our states, and we're concerned about both the fiscal side and the economic growth side. >> susie: so talk to us a little bit about what kind of deal you would like to see. what were you proposing to the president? >> let's put it this way, if money is just shifted from the federal government to the states, that's not really saving anything. and the president understands that. we think it is really important. recognizing if there are cuts in funds, there ought to be a corresponding reduction in some of the requirements that are put on the states. so we really, as much as anything else, wanted to make sure that our voices are heard and that as decisions are made, whether it is about taxes, whether it is about spending cuts, that they be done equitably and with our input. >> susie: your state is headquarters to many large american companies. and if their taxes go up, whic

over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again, there's no prospect in an agreement that doesn't involve the rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. all those americans get a tax cut under the framework under the first $250,000 of their income. in some sense, it's a tax cut for all americans. it's just for people who make more than that, we're going to ask them to pay a modestly amount more. >> that's hard to understand given how much going over the fiscal cliff would hurt the economy. why is going over the fiscal cliff worth it for just this one component? if you can get the other components, why wouldn't you take that? >> good question. thanks for asking. what we're trying to do is put in place a comprehensive balance set of fiscal reforms that put us back on the path to living within our means and create room for investing to make the economy stronger, make sure we're protecting medicare for future generations, and forcing the government to use the taxpayers' resources more wisely. in that context, you have to have a significant amount of revenues. we don't see a way of doing it that makes an

of progress. and house speaker john maynard discuss and the fiscal cliff and president barack obama suppresses his case today for a tax hike to help reduce the deficit. we are not insisting on rates just out of spite or any kind of partisan victory but rather because we need to raise a certain amount of revenue. >> and he made that pitch to several wealthy ceos he wants to raise taxes on the top 2 percent of income earners and he believes this will help raise the government's 16 trillion dollar debt coupled with spending cuts but the republican controlled house says the president has not responded to their latest proposal. >> i think we made a good-faith offer to avert the fiscal crisis and that offer included significant spending cuts and reforms and it included additional revenue and frankly it was the balanced approach mr. president has been asking for. erick kanter announced today there will be no adjournment into a credible solution to the fiscal cliff is found. >> house lawmakers proposed a bill today they claim will bring the costs under control and provide a safe retirement, it creates two groups of public employees those hired before 2011 and those hired since then and for th

the fiscal cliff. that would allow tax rates to rise on everybody. then congress could come back after the new year and cut taxes on everyone but the wealthy. nbc's mike viqueira has the story. >> reporter: administration optimism for a deal. but only if republicans give in on raising rates for the wealthy. >> you think we'll get a deal by the end of the year? >> i do. the only thing that stands in the way of a deal right now is if a group of republican members decide they're going to block the deal because they want to extend tax cuts. we can't afford for the wealthiest 2% of americans. >> reporter: john boehner dug in. no rate rises on anyone. >> the president's idea of a negotiation is roll over and do what i ask. >> reporter: the opening bid brought the gop leaders by geithner is a nonstarter. >> i was flabbergasted. i looked at him and said, you can't be serious. >> reporter: included in the offer, $1.6 trillion in new revenue, twice what was on the table in last year's failed grand bargain, and $600 billion in spending cuts, much of it from medicare, not nearly good enough,

republican offer from speaker boehner on the fiscal cliff resolution. he said it was out of balance because the speaker has not agreed to rate increases but the president identified a two-step process by which he is hoping still to reach an agreement before the end of the year, if he can get republicans to give on the top rate. he said that first of all, we can't do a fundamental tax reform in the next two weeks. we simply have to have a down payment before the end of the year and then commit to tax and entitlement reform during the year of 2013. he also specified, and i think this is significant, that he thought 300 to $400 billion over ten years is about what you could raise by closing loopholes and trimming deductions. this is a -- this is a way to come to grips with how to get to the revenue target the president wants. let's first of all listen to -- we have got a piece of sound from that interview. let's listen to the president. >> when you look at how much revenue you can actually raise by closing loopholes and deductions, it's probably in the range of $3 to $400 billion. that's not enough tobalanced pl actually reduces the defi

fast approaches the fiscal cliff, the two sides are talking past each other. democrats say they've laid down their marker, hiking tax rates on wealthier americans. and it's up to republicans to propose specific spending cuts they want to entitlement programs. however, republicans say they've offered a concession, putting revenue on the table. and they say it's now up to the president and his fellow democrats to feel some pain and proposed cuts in medicare and medicaid. confusing? we asked harry reid. >> where is the disconnect? >> i don't understand his brain. so you should ask him, okay? >> from capitol hill to the white house, democrats are standing firm, saying the major hurdle remains whether to raise tax rates. what's next? where do things go? the top republican aide tells me they look forward to talking to the white house. >> time is still running out, too. >> and quickly. >> with us now are ryan lizza, the new yorker magazine's washington correspondent and cnn's senior political analyst ron bram's team. thank you both for coming in. ron, you wrote an interesting column, i just read it, in the national journal about de

. nevertheless, the mood is fine. investors hope the fiscal cliff in the u.s.a. can be avoided. >> let's get a closer look at friday's trading. with all that uncertainty in washington, traders were playing it cautious. in germany, the blue-chip dax broke a bit of a winning streak, only gaining fractionally. euro stoxx 50 was down on the day. in new york, trading is still under way. it is also not really doing a whole lot today. as for the euro against the dollar, it is above that key $1.30 level, trading for $ 1.3002. unemployment in the eurozone climbed to yet another record in october. and 11.7% of the working age population, about 19 million people, are without a job. in spain, that means one in every four people are out looking for work and a dependent on state aid. >> but it is not all bad news. ireland has managed to turn its major recession around and is now posting gains thanks to a lifeline from the e you. >> two years ago, ireland receive more than 67 billion euros from the eu bailout fund, and the money appears to have helped. the government was able to sink its annu

the president's in this respect. rough the biggest aspects of the fiscal cliff is the fact that tax rates are going to go up on all americans. the senate has passed a bill that would give the middle class 98% of the people their tax cut. it is done. it's in a package. it's sitting at our desk. and all that has to happen is for the house to take it up. the only reason they're not taking it up is they want millionaires and billionaires to get their taxes cut, too. and this was a big issue in the campaign, thomas. so why don't we, instead of throwing insults, why don't they just pick up and pass that part as their own republican, tom cole suggested, let's have some good faith here, and we'll hammer out the rest of it. >> so senator, one thing you say about show me the money, if we talk about the lack of structural changes that are out there for entitlements, nbc's first read makes that point about that saying that the white house is sending the message that if republicans want entitlement reform, they're the ones who have to propose it. so is the white house forcing republicans basically to do t

to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff in. >> absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. it's only 2%. >> i want to bring in "usa today" bureau chief and welcome to both of you. where are we in these negotiations, susan? >> i think the most encouraging thing was they agreed to the to characterize the phone call. the last time around the characterization of the phone call became a controversy in itself. i think it's pretty clear that the white house and republicans think the white house hand on this is strengthening. we see the polls that you mention, pew polls this week say americans trust the president more, assume if a deal is not reached -- trust the white house more, think if a deal isn't reached it, will be the fault of republicans and it is in fact easier for democrats to go over the fiscal cliff than it is for republicans because then all those tax cuts from the republicans are swept away. but it's too early. it's only december 6. we've got until december 31st and in washington that's a long time. >> a lifetime. you wrote yesterd

long term effects for business travel if the economy falls off the fiscal cliff? the gbta predicts the reduced deficits and lower interest rates will lead to growth in the economy and an increase in business travel spending. >>> welcome back. now to the weather channel. reynolds wolf is standing by. what is happening around the country today? >> the story is all west. everything is taking place out west. rain, some strong winds, even some snow. some places snow getting up to around 2, 3 feet, but that is high elevation. but for the eastern seaboard, pretty quiet p. temperatures very mild this time of year. when you get into the center of the u.s., still fairly mild conditions. a bit cooler as you might imagine in spots up like towards the twin cities and even over towards chicago. but then out west, that's where the trouble really brews. it's that time of year that there's norm lay big area of high pressure that sets up off the west coast. that's gone and that allows all the pacific moisture to come through. high snow will be an issue. rain in seattle. so how is it going to affect your travel? a little bit of a trend continuing her

beat the fiscal cliff and the higher tax rates on dividends, so, join safeway to over 170 companies, that's the latest number we've got from the wall street journal, but i bet you it's even higher than that, so they join wal-mart and weight watchers and ethan allen just to name a few. >> i should be keeping track, it was 173 a couple of days ago, i've got to believe it's pushing 200 by now. i'll he get a number. >> yeah. imus: thank you very much. by the way, the dow is up 14 points and that's where we have it this thursday morning. time is money, 30 seconds, here is what else we've got for you today. two states vote to make marijuana real including for recreational use. and tommy chong will join us, and you never know what he's going to say. concussions, they're a serious issue for the nfl and its players of course, but it's a violent sport, football. and injuries are almost bound to happen. we'll talk to a former player who now advises the union on the concussion issue. and we'll talk to a chiropractor who will no longer accept insurance, cash only, because of obamacare. all right

investment bank should do is solve financial problems for people. with things like the fiscal cliff coming up and a radical change in tax rates and possible future growth rates, i just think there are going to be lots of decisions that need to be made. lots of interesting decisions that aren't just m&a. corporate boards need advice on that. i'm optimistic it will be a decent year. >> we hope to visit you during that year. thank you. >> back to you, melissa. >>> news for investors out there. let's send it to mary thompson for a market flash. >> cnbc obtaining a notice that the company is raising margin requirements for apple to 60% from 30% effective at midnight tonight. one thing we want to note is cnbc has spoken to other people on the equity desk. they say they are not planning to follow the raise of margin on requirements for apple. we want to note that core clearing will issue a statement on this later. back to you. >> all right. thank you very much, mary thompson. still ahead, live coverage of president obama's remarks on the fiscal cliff before the business roundtable. can the president convince corporate america that he's

borrowing limit. both sides seem to be digging in their heels with no move to avoid the fiscal cliff. fiscal cliff negotiations have been at a stand still since monday when republicans proposed raising revenue by closing tax loopholes not by raising rates own the wealthy as the president has demanded. >> we're not insisting on rates out of spite but rather because we need to raise a certain amount of revenue. >> we can't keep borrowing mown and raising taxes and expect the problem to go away. >> with no solution in sight the white house budget is now ordering the pentagon and other an an jencies to finalize their plan to avoid massive spending cuts. >> secretary of state clinton says nato's decision missiles to turkey sends a clear message that tour ski is backed by its allies. the big concern remains an increasely desperate assad regime will turn to chemical weapons as rebel fighting rages on. the u.s. and its partners are looking to apply additional pressure on at a conference next week. the regime insists they would not use weapons against its people. >> a natural gas tanker arrived in japan today becoming the first vessel to successfully test a new trade route through arctic waters. it opened up due to shrinking ice. it shaved nearly t

up. >>> and does the white house think that falling off the fiscal cliff is a better option than compromising on tax rate increases? we will hear exclusively from treasury secretary tim geithner right here on "closing bell." maria and i look forward to seeing you at the top of the hour from right here at the new york stock exchange. meantime, back to you guys. >> bill, thank you, sir. >>> time now for today's edition of "where in the world is john mcafee." last time we spoke to him he said he was in belize. now we know he is in guatemala. robert frank, yet another strange twist to what's turning out to be the strangest story of the year. >> yeah, it really is. he picked a good country to go to. guatemala does not like belize. they've had a long-time territorial dispute about territory in southern belize. and he went to the border. he's hired an attorney. he says that he's seeking political asylum. i'm not quite sure whether he'll be granted political asylum. not sure what the ground will be. he's seening help from the u.s. state department on that issue. but he has turn what initially started as a murder investiga

2nd comes, we go over the fiscal cliff, and the world doesn't end and we kind of just get acclimated to this whole thing of just going forward with these higher tax rates? what do you do then if you get stuck in some of these positions? i'm looking at a couple other numbers. cash, $2.6 trillion. i saw before i came out here that corporate bond issuance went over. i think there are a lot of ramifications. i think just to dismiss this is really inviting trouble. >> think about all the corporate bond issuers out there. they're taking a window of opportunity because that window is going to close. they're running for the hills had to make sure they get all the bonds issued they can. >> if we go over the cliff, the cbo says we're going to be in severe recession. that's not business as usual. >> it's a contrarian fact that when people hate stocks this much, that's probably the time you want to own them. fiscal cliff or not. >> all right. i'm also looking at fundamental indicators too. if we go into recession, i think that's priced into this market. we'll be watching, gentlemen. thank you very much. we appreciate it. we have 50 minutes before the closing bell sounds

obama and speaker john boehner took turns today finger pointing on the fiscal cliff talks. take a listen to this. >> it's not acceptable to moo a me to you for members of congress to hold middle class tax cuts to hostage simply because they don't want tax rates on upper income folks to go up. >> the white house spent three weeks trying to develop a proposal, and they send one up here that calls for $1.6 trillion in new taxes, calls for a little not even $400 billion in cuts. it was not a serious proposal. >> all right. so where are we right now? even while the fate of our fragile economy hangs in the fiscal cliff balance, for that let's turn to our distinguished guests. peter goodman. he's the huffington post business editor on a former "new york times"man. we welcome back republican congresswoman nan hayworth and haddy heath, senior policy analyst with the independent women's forum. okay. so mcconnell laughed at the tim geithner proposal. and john boehner says we're at a stalemate. and president obama himself is kind of getting ugly about this enemy's list. we've seen this before from him. my proposal is, republicans have to come with a counter offer. right now. there's no point in blasting obama. just a counter offer. i want to read from toda

deliberate strategy the slow walk our economy right to the edge of the fiscal cliff. instead of reforming the tax code, cutting spending, the president wants to raise tax rates. even if the president got the tax rate hike that he wanted, understand that we would continue to see trillion dollar deficits for as far as the eye can see. washington has a spending problem. not a receive knew problem. the president doesn't agree with our proposal, i believe that he's got an obligation to families and small businesses to offer a plan of his own. a plan that can pass both chambers of the congress. we are ready and eager to talk to the president about such a plan. >> mr. speaker, you did speak with the president earlier this week. can you characterize that call? did he have any kind of counteroffer? also, we understand that he just is making clear that it is -- got to be increase in rates for the wealthy or no deal. are you willing to give a little bit, maybe just not all the way to 39.6? >> it was the -- the phone call was pleasant. but it was just more of the same. the conversations -- the staff had yesterday just more of the same. it is time for the -- president, if he i

the fiscal cliff, what do you have to lose, the rates are going to go up. i don't think it makes any difference two tim geithner says. >> it is so widely held by so many who want to play the stock market, let's say, beyond just the capital gains, whether it's in taxable account organization not and it also has the psychological impact that this is the one that i'm going to get out of because i'm afraid of what's coming in general? >> this is the stock, yes, it's cheap, now once it goes down, we have a million reasons, well, it's a nokia phone, well, it's china. ipad miniis available. this is a stock that's so widely owned. it reminds me of sirius satellite. every doctor, every dentist owns apple. they don't know the price per share, they just know it is the proxy for the market. >> they just accelerated dividends. but i think we're talking now 150 companies in some fashion have accelerated or put forward a special dividend. you put forward a special market share, china is 76, with the market share at least. >> is it a disappointment that apple did not pay a special dividend? is that

fiscal cliff. the ten-year $2.2 trillion plan keeps bush-era tax cuts in place for all taxpayers. the white house has maintained that tax rates have to rise on the wealthy. >>> australia is the latest country to lower interest rates, cutting its key rate a quarter point to the lowest level since the peak of the financial crisis. it was the bank's fourth rate cut this year amid worries about the global economy and the u.s. fiscal cliff issue. >>> "the new york times" is seeking to trim staff they are offering buyouts to nonunion managers hoping to convince 30 to take a deal like that. the executive editor jill abramson said the layoffs would be necessary if the buyouts don't achieve the savings goal. >>> for the next two hours we're rising above with the governor whose state is cnbc's top state for business, governor rick perry of texas is here. good morning, governor. >> good morning. >> so great to have you in for two hours. it's a pleasure. you speak to so many things. you know a little bit about the latest presidential election and what finally happened and we want to hear what you have to say about the fiscal cliff as well, be

case that markets and the economy are a much bigger determinant. the impact of the fiscal cliff solution on that broader growth instead of focusing so much on what the tax rates will do. >>> coming up next, spy games. america's doubling its overseas spy network.cost coming up. >>> a prescription to sell. we have an analyst who's making a big call after a 60 minutes report last night made a big claim about a big hospital chain. that's ahead. >>> it is "street talk" time. happy monday, everybody. let's take a look first of all at what's happening with research in mission. this stock is down, on quite a roller coaster recently. >> downgraded to a sell from a hold. canaccord doesn't see consumer poll necessary for the blackberry 10 to reverse the overall. they say blackberry 140 won0 wo a bust but it won't be enough to move the ship in the right direction. rim stock is up 53% since october 1st. >> but still down 20% year to date. >> it's coming back. >>> josh brown may win the stocks draft just yet. >>> deckers stock bolting higher, all down to sparkling leopard print uggs. >> stern ag hiked the rating to buy from neutral. set a $65 price target. they see improvement

and finger pointing in the fiscal cliff debate. tax rates spike and spending slashed. congress is breaking for the holidays in two weeks. it could send the economy spinning in directions. $1.6 trillion in tax hikes. he will travel to pennsylvania to sell it to you. republicans aren't buying it. listen to house speaker, john boehner. >> despite the claims the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet to get serious about real spending cuts. >> democrats are firing right back at boehner. harry reid getting a little personal. >> i don't understand his brain, so you should ask him. okay? >> ouch. athena jones live from washington. same old same old. where do we go from here? >> that's the big question. the nice talk after the election is pretty much gone away. you mentioned one of the big sticking points, that's taxes. republicans and democrats can't agree on how to raise the tax revenue? end the bush tax cuts for the wealthy, close the loopholes, raise the capital gains taxes or all of the above. right now, they can't agree on how much money should be raised on t

resolution to the fiscal cliff. i just think it's going to come after we go over. so that's not unlike -- >> we agree. >> the idea there is actually republicans can claim a tax decrease. that is you can take the rate down from 39.6% to 38% or 37%, something like that. the president gets what he wants, which is higher rates. the republicans can claim victory as well because they're lower than they would have been otherwise. >> tony, let's assume we do, in fact, go over the cliff. as both you and jerrod suggest that we likely will. the market will likely go down and go down hard. a new poll suggested if we do go over the cliff that republicans are going to be the ones who are going to be blamed. how will we deal with that with the market being held hostage by these negotiations which seemingly, at least in public, are going nowhere? >> first of all, i think the markets might be better to listen to me and jerrod rather than whoever is telling them this could absolutely get done and the republicans will cave and that's just what's going to happen. i mean, they should listen to us more because the politics of this are really, really important and make it very difficult for the sides to come together before

whole issue here. >> on the fiscal cliff front, no new deals or concessions made public, but "the new york times" reports the dynamic has changed. at the request of speaker boehner, senate leaders and nancy pelosi have been dismissed from the negotiating table. leaving just the speaker and the president to hammer this one out. today vice president biden is hosting middle-class families at the white house, continuing to pressure congress to strike a deal on tax rates below 250,000. yesterday, the president struck a hopeful note with a middle-income family in virginia, while maintaining a hardline on negotiations. >> the message that i think we all want to send to members of congress is, this is a sovble problem. i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for rate at the top 2% but i remain optimistic we can get something done for that is good for families like this one and that is good for the american economy. >> but the clock is ticking. with just two full weeks before christmas to go. joining me now from washington, the man with all the answer

with the fiscal cliff and there's hot rhetoric to go around. >> our members believe strongly that raising tax rates will hurt the economy. closing loopholes, especially on those who are wealthy, is a better way to raise this revenue. >> in order for us to raise the amount of revenue that's needed just by closing deductions and loopholes for high earners we'd have to, for example, eliminate or severely cap the char itible deduction. >> an obsession to raise taxes not going to solve the problem. what will solve the problem is doing something about the entitlements, taking on the wasteful spending in washington. >> and meantime, "the new york times" jonathan wiseman reports behind the scene republican leaders are considering the president's plan to extend middle class tax cuts now an address the debt and spending in the new year. here's republican senator tom coburn on "morning joe." >> actually, i would rather see the rates go up than the other way and greater chance to broaden the base in the future. >> do something, a down payment on cuts, on investments and revenue this year. and then in the next year

for the wealthiest most fortunate americans and others to avoid the fiscal cliff between now and december 31st but take what we agree on which is that the middle class tax cuts should be extended and tax rates should not go up for the middle class, let's do that now. the republicans refuse to do that thus far, which is sort of baffling. even some of their senior members like tom cole from oklahoma have said let's take that deal, but let's pass the tax cuts for the middle class and we're talking about making sure that tax rates for 98% of all americans and 97% of all businesses. it's a small percentage of individuals that make more than $250,000 a year that tax rates would go up just a little bit. we had an election, thomas, where americans had a clear choice and they chose and we need to make sure that we think a balanced approach that is fair, that doesn't throw the middle class under the bus and that works mathematically. so far what we've seen from republicans in the house does not work in terms of reducing the deficit. >> congresswoman, we are watching the president on our screen at the business roundtable. there was an issue with the poll microphone for the president's address so they've hand

special dividends as early chris presents in advance of the tax hikes coming in the fiscal cliff. so we have booz allen already downgrade. costco downgraded by fitch. brown foreman was slapped around by s&p with a downgrade. carnival got hit with a credit negative rating from moody's so on and on and on. here's the deal. we're seeing 173 companies issuing dividends. this is and indicator taxes could be go up. 2 1/2 times the rate we saw of companies issuing special dividends in 2010 when bush rates were threatened to be revoked back then including dividends. interesting part of the story executives who championed fair share, americans should sacrifice like the cofounder of costco, jim senegal is getting a special dividend and saving $4 million in taxes along with the rest of the board. the board overall is saving eight million bucks on early $29 million payout. the 1%, corporate insiders who see the cash on the balance sheet, see the tax hikes coming are saying you know what? give me the special dividend now so we don't have to pay increased tax. >> costco hitting a all-time, 52-week high today. >> that's right. sandra: thanks very much, liz macdonald. david: today is the anniversary of the first text. find out just how long ago the first text actually wen

going to get you up to speed on the day's headlines here on cnn. fiscal cliff talks are turning into a high-stakes game of chicken. secretary tim geithner said there's no deal unless republicans agree to raise taxes on the wealthy. >> if they are going to force higher rates on virtually all americans because they are unwilling to let tax rates go up on 2% of americans, then that's the choice we'll have to make. >> republicans are furious. they don't like democrats drawing a red line in the sand. >> i think we are going over the cliff. it is pretty clear to me they made a political calculation. >> president barack obama and gop leaders held one face to face meeting on the fiscal cliff since the election. that meeting took place more than two weeks ago. >>> the kansas city chiefs suited up and took the field today against carolina. that's despite the shock and horror of yesterday's suicide of linebacker jevon belcher. stay right there with full details in a full report on cnn in just a minute. >>> high winds and heavy rain are pummeling the northwest. the rainfall will continue throughout the day. some places have already seen a foot of rain since yesterday. people living in northern california, oregon and washington state are bracing for rising rivers and po

from the house speaker on where the fiscal cliff talks stand with 24 days to go. where should you put your money heading into this weekend? could be a very crucial weekend. >>> no worries. with the unemployment rate still near an 8% level, why some companies can't find workers. there's work and it is not a skills gap. we'll show you what else is being factored in to that equation. >>> and no fair, perhaps? well, a big change at big blue. ibm changing the way it pays down its 401(k). will other companies follow suit? tyler mathisen, my partner, who is always fair, always working, and is always a work in progress, according to this, is at new york stock exchange. hi, ty. >> i am the ultimate work in progress. thank you very much. >>> despite the assessment from the speaker of the house on the fiscal cliff, the fact he says there is no progress being made so far, the dow sort of playing past it. right now the industrials up by 46 points at 13,120 and change. apple is part of the nasdaq. apple down $14 a share. another 2.66% today as scott mentioned a moment ago, $50 billion in market value shaved off of apple this week alone. >>> let's begin with those comments just 24 days to go until america confronts t

-faced lie about the facts. here's the democratic and republican opening bids on the fiscal cliff. but the revenue side of the republican proposal just doesn't match up with reality. you can't get $800 billion in revenue from lowering rates and closing loopholes and deductions. can we get on that page? it doesn't come close to adding up, unless you get rid of just about every deduction for the middle class that's out there.ç is that what this election was about? president obama has been clear about it all along. >> unfortunately, the speaker's proposal right now is still out of balance. you know, he talks, for example, about $800 billion worth of revenues, but he says he's going to do that by lowering rates. and when you look at the math, it doesn't work. >> you see, if we lower these rates, then the job creators will go out there end and all this money to hire a bunch of people, and that's going to contribute more to the tax base. and gosh, we're just going to take care of all of our problems. we have tried this stuff, and it didn't work. when leaders mcconnell and boehner feed the base, it makes it harder for them to come around and later on lead their members towards a sane deal with the president of the united states a

that if this is not good enough for the white house, we will go over the fiscal cliff. >> if you read though, the boehner proposal carefully, no tax rate increases, which we know is a nonstarter for the president. so where does that leave us? john avlon is here to help us read through the lines of the deal, also crunch some of those numbers. first, we're talking about the $800 billion figure. that's in the lert john boehner wrote to the president. >> right. there is no numbers breaking that down. it's a where's the beef question. bumper sticker, we have the numbers but no details. boehner's aides will say that's where the negotiations come in. the devil's in the details. they'll say look, to achieve these revenue increases by closing deductions and loopholes. in the letter boehner sent, he says they may be able to lower some rates based on comments made by erskine bowles. >> i think for folks especially the middle class, they're trying to figure out the math. those deductions and loopholes, do they actually dig into the middle class. >> right and what the romney campaign tried to do with a similar proposal and in fact, the democratic group third

that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff. >> oh, absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthy -- remember, it's only 2%. >> so the white house is eliminating the republicans' house speaker john boehner was best cards. house speaker john boehner was left pretending that the democrats had not offered them a deal. >> now we need a response from the white house. we can't sit here and negotiate with ourselves. >> house republican leader eric cantor also seemed to forget that the white house presented a specific plan in these negotiations. >> where are the specifics? where are the discussions? nothing is going on. meanwhile, the people of this country are the ones that suffer. so we ask the president, sit down with us, be serious about the specifics of spending so we can stop the wasteful spending in washington and finally address the problem. >> john boehner appears to have the same form of anesthesia mitt romney was suffering from on the campaign trail. he tells supporters, if our offer is not acceptable to the president, then he has an obligation t

don't think people realize that that there's a lot of ways around this "fiscal cliff." this political theater, if you don't allow these tax cuts to expire on the rich, the 1%, it's .25% coming off of gdp. you are losing a quarter percentage point. granted gdp numbers were better than we thought they would be. you are still losing a quarter percent if you let these tax cuts expire. it's an odd thing when we're so fragile on growth. >> let me take you to the trading element. what's happening is you get continued announcement of special dividends. you have been buying stocks on that basis. talk me through where you are now on perhaps what people may buy moving forward. >> it's a process that you really want to take into effect. it's got to be a company that you think is going to have some growth going forward. i bought winn. based on the company's fundamentals and then also for the kicker, the special dividend. that's something that i played. i also bought costco because i like the company's underlying fundamentals and a kicker for the special dividend there. you must like the company. >

entire investment philosophy just because of the fiscal cliff. >> craig, you're the patient value investor. are you standing aside, waiting for this to resolve itself? >> you know, we use the volatility, the fiscal cliff to buy great businesses that are on sale. you know, the fact remains that the stocks are extremely underowned like i've never seen. i saw the other day, in 2006 pensions and endowments had about 60% of their enveinvestme in equities. that's down to under 35% in most cases. you also had four years of the much yul fund li mutual fund liquidations. i don't think the market is at great risk here. stay with domestic companies. stay with companies that have real high barriers of entry that are kpacheap. if you get caught up in the day to day news flow, you can get whipped in and out. the fiscal cliff will be resolved, whether it's two weeks or a month and a half. the market will move around, but long term it looks good. >> the question s how will it be resolved? jeff cox, already we are seeing a movement on the part of investors to say, if i'm sitting on a position wher

the head and knock me out. apple. if we're going off the fiscal cliff, we know capital gains tax rates are going higher, right? right? that's obvious. do you really think the republicans have the power to keep those capital gains rates down? apple's become a referendum on the president's power and polling. right now he has the upper hand, then he can really roll them and intends to do so. it's reasonable to take some profits so you can pay the tax man less now rather than more later. it's a wimpy thing, it's logical, makes perfect economic sense. especially if you hold apple. so the stock gets hammered. it makes sense to sell it. but let's be less emotional and even clinical about this one. first, divide apple's share price by ten, now you have a stock that got crushed down to $54. when you do that arithmetic, it isn't all that scary, is it? where does the pessimism fit in? when we have to endure the pin the tail on the selloff game, what excuses for the selloff, myriad alibis i hear from today's action. apple's losing share to google, it doesn't have the right phones in europe, nokia's ma

me next for an interview you'll only see on this network. see what he thinks about the fiscal cliff. >>> later on in the program, with the rush to sell high-end homes to take advantage of this year's lower tax rates, is it a good time now to snap them up? our wealth editor robert frank. plus, our real estate correspondent will tell you what you need to know back half of the show. don't miss it. >>> and here's a lye shot of the street outside the new york stock exchange. christmas tree is right behind the band there. they are ready for the tree lighting ceremony. expect it to take place about an hour from now. we'll take you there live. back in a moment. obligations. obligations. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. what i really need is sleep. introducing the ishares core, building blocks for the heart of your portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. music is a universal language. but when i was in an accident... i was worried

days and counting in the country's potential fall off the fiscal cliff. avoiding it -- if they do nothing, everyone's taxes go up and automatic spending cuts will take effect. no imminent deal is in sight. >> if they are going to force higher rates on virtually all americans, because they're unwilling to let tax rates go up on 2% of americans, then that's a choice we're going to have to make. >> i would say we're nowhere. period. we're nowhere. we have put a serious offer on the table by putting revenues up there to try to get this question resolved. but the white house has responded with virtually nothing. they have actually asked for more revenue than they have been asking for the whole entire time. >> in other words not quite a good place to be, but both sides agree that the government needs to raise more money. how much and how they do it are two of the major sticking points. >>> and protests and a constitutional crisis, what is next for egypt. we'll dig deeper into the struggle for power between conservative islamists and liberal secularists. and later, brad pitt talks about his future with angelina jolie. >>> and a dog reunited with his owner after seven years apart. we will show you how it happened. r help in choosing the ri

hearing on the fiscal cliff next week. sir, i start with the comparison of the two plans so everyone can see this. the gop plan through closing loopholes and no deductions and rate hikes, as we pointed out as exposed under the democratic plan. the republican plan includes more entitlements through republican reform and then eligibility age being raised than the gop plan including changes of social security not addressed under the president's plan. so these plans, obviously, to the naked eye, they deliver greatly. no matter what con eggs sessions will be made on oert side, explain where you see the sensible center. >> first of all, that plan makes no sense because it forgets about and casts aside the most important focus we've got to bring to this, is what happens to middle income families. that's where the house should pass the legislation. we've already passed. give some certainty. get that part of the deal done. then we can have a debate about upper income folks. the idea that you have a bill in the house that will protect middle income families right away if they voted out of the house and the president signs it, which he will, the idea that you can just let that s

plan to cut the u.s. deficit and avoid the fiscal cliff, but the proposal is quickly dismissed by democrats and the white house. and australia central bank cuts interest rates to the lowest level since the financial crisis in a bid to get ahead of sluggish commodities demand. financial policy committee has been meeting. the outlook for financial stability has improved. signs of improvement overall. . few signs yet of improvement, though, in corporate credit. more capital would enonly banks to access cheaper funds. that's their latest thoughts. they see further cuts needed on bankers pay. also looking to see whether we have any construction. the november construction pmi 49.3. slipping to the 50.9 in october. survey data hasn't necessarily matched the hard data either. and this all comes as british chambers of commerce has issued a gloomy prognosis. cutting its uk growth forecasts for next year and 2014 to between 1% and 1.8 saying output will only return -- sorry, to 1% from #.8 saying it will only return to levels at the end of 2014 p. this after retail sales also missed forecast in number. like for like members up 4.4% on an annualized basis. this is accordi

the house speaker comment. there he is leaving the room. comment on the fiscal cliff. headline -- john boehner calling the white house's most recent offer not a serious proposal reiterating the fact that is he willing to put revenues on the table but not through a raise in the tax rates, by closing loopholes. he wants lower tax rates. reiterating the republican position there. harold ford jr., the former democratic congressman, also doug holtz-eakin is the former congressional budget office director. keith banks is here with us as well. harold, your reaction to what the house speaker says here? certainly doesn't seem, if you listen to either the president or the speaker, that we're any closer to a deal. >> i was encouraged by the speaker's remarks. he didn't put his foot down and say no adamantly or irretrievably to anything. whether asked specifically if rate increases were something he could support, he suggested that there were other means and other ways to achieve new revenue. a lot of ways i thought it was a measured response and we live to fight. those of us who would like to see a deal get done we live to fight another day. i hope that the white house listened closely and perhaps are willing to counter after listening to the speaker this afternoon. >> let's look -